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Postby CrittersMinion » Fri Oct 12, 2012 3:26 am

[Reposted from old comment system, from Crystal on Mon, 26 Oct 2009 19:42:42 0000]

Aburt is right. Spam isn't the same thing as advertising -- why have two separate words for it, then? Spam is _irrelevant_ and _excessive_ advertising. Someone who classes single-post announcements of new innovation or projects right alongside 50-messages-a-day ads for "male enhancement" products doesn't have enough intelligent discrimination to be a true moderator. Dictator, yes. Moderator, no. It takes much less thought to be a dictator, mindlessly enforcing rules, than it takes to be a truly thoughtful moderator who understands that the rules are guidelines that support principles, and that the principles are the point, not the rules.

The root word for "moderator" is not "power" -- it's "moderate." TerishD, you're obviously in it for the wrong reasons. Real moderators _serve_ the community, as it sorts itself out. They don't wield power over it. The job description is right there in the job title.

And if you need to use such a generalized passive voice ("to register to post your advertisement _is seen as_") to make your point, I refer you to the political system, where your talent for vague phrasing will be well suited to the job. Those of us who are paying attention will notice that "your advertisement is seen as" doesn't specify _who_ sees the ad that way, and since there's obvously dissent on that view, those of us who are paying attention will also notice you're using a conveniently narrow sampling of the human population to define the word as you prefer to define it. That is, you say "people see your ad as spam," but there are plainly people who don't, so you can't be completely correct, and your point is weakly supported.

That's not really the kind of behavior and thoughtfulness that would earn my respect and vote for you as moderator, but possibly the Web site at which You Have Power isn't one that permits voting, either.
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Postby CrittersMinion » Fri Oct 12, 2012 3:26 am

[Reposted from old comment system, from Dave Freer on Wed, 21 Oct 2009 09:08:03 0000]

It sounds like someone made a typo in 'Ars Technica' - left the 'e' out. You know - as someone who has been a long-term member of various forums and resisted any moves to make me moderate any of them - 'moderators' are often the sort of people who like excercising power rather than the sort who moderate. A forum that lets too many little corporals rule their little empires does tend to narrow and decay - and this sounds like where they're heading fast. Starting a new forum - with an explicit ban on unrelated spam and ceasar himself might be less difficult than you think -- the bloggers on critters would all put in a promotion of it I'd think.
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Postby CrittersMinion » Fri Oct 12, 2012 3:27 am

[Reposted from old comment system, from aburt on Mon, 19 Oct 2009 00:04:21 0000]

Not so much a replacement for A.T., but a forum to read about new things, and be able to announce them. It would be better if A.T. (and other like it) simply allowed announcements, but since they don't, okay, I'll take a stab at a substitute:

http://tech-soft.com/innovationforum

Let me know what you think.
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Postby CrittersMinion » Fri Oct 12, 2012 3:27 am

[Reposted from old comment system, from aburt on Fri, 16 Oct 2009 18:40:33 0000]

The ultimate reply from "Caesar" of Ars Technica was thus: "I don't care who he compares us to. He's a spammer, everyone knows it, and we will never tolerate his spammy spamness here."

(I had mentioned that Galileo had also been the subject of heavy-handed moderation in his day.)

Someone said since Ars Technica was a for-profit concern I needed to buy an ad. (I said I hoped he wasn't a hypocrite using Linux, PERL, PHP, etc. or benefited from others who used those, since they would be excluded by his principle.)

Another moderator said, in essence, that the site was an Old Boys Club and one should play accordingly.

(Since it's nearly impossible to keep someone out given TOR and an infinite supply of email addresses, I posted some Ghandi-esque passive resistance under the username "ShootTheMessenger." Who was, of course, shot. [Banned.])

Sad. But, critics and reformers are often censored and banned for their criticism and suggestions for improvement. Even more sad is that techie folks used to be the forward thinkers of the day but are now becoming the entrenched and change-averse.
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Postby CrittersMinion » Fri Oct 12, 2012 3:27 am

[Reposted from old comment system, from aburt on Thu, 15 Oct 2009 14:40:49 0000]

Sorry, but this is where I think you're 100% wrong. The free communication of new ideas, a little "free advertising", has been shown in the past to be a good thing for society. We're not talking viagra ads here. We're talking about announcing new projects like Linux, PERL, and a great many others. (Before they were known to be anything seriously useful. They didn't spring full-formed from Zeus's brow.)

This worked VERY well in the old unmoderated Usenet. I agree that real spam (viagra ads and whatnot) are unproductive and should be moderated away. But not announcements of new projects that may benefit everyone (now or down the road), or may lead to cross-fertilization of new ideas.

Which is the greater harm to society: A free ad for a project that might greatly improve society, or society not being greatly improved by a project because people can't learn of its existence?

I'm sorry, TerishD, but you are wrong. I urge you to rethink your position.
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Postby CrittersMinion » Fri Oct 12, 2012 3:28 am

[Reposted from old comment system, from TerishD on Thu, 15 Oct 2009 14:21:16 0000]

I am sorry, but as somebody with high status on a number of websites, those who come to a site simply to announce a product is spamming. Now, we (me and the other mods, owners, and such with power) have allowed some spam to stay IF it did speak to the philosophy of the site. It is not that we are against allowing people the freedom to speak, but we are against others using our site for free advertising. Truthfully, it is an honor that somebody believes our site to be able to generate sales for them (and that we have money to spend), but the reason that most forum sites exist is NOT for monetary gain or advertising products.

Before posting spam, it is best to make yourself a presence on the site. Almost ALL sites treasure active members. Almost ALL sites that I frequent allow you to say whatever you want in your sig, so you CAN advertise there (you want your advertisement to be seen a lot, be an active member that posts -- ON TOPIC -- a lot). Simply to register to post your advertisement is however seen as abuse of a free service, and I support deleting and banning such people.
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Postby CrittersMinion » Fri Oct 12, 2012 3:28 am

[Reposted from old comment system, from aburt on Wed, 14 Oct 2009 03:41:18 0000]

Don't tempt me. :)

Does anyone know of well-known forum sites that permit people to announce their own projects?

It's better if it's within the existing large forums, since they get more traffic, and the goal is to increase knowledge and cross-fertilization of ideas as much as possible. A new site wouldn't have the traffic (yet, perhaps ever). And of course it would be forbidden to announce the birth of such a new site on the existing sites... So it's all around better if the existing sites improve their policies.

But if they don't, I'm thinking you're right, and I might just start one.
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Postby CrittersMinion » Fri Oct 12, 2012 3:28 am

[Reposted from old comment system, from Crystal on Tue, 13 Oct 2009 23:39:47 0000]

I agree with Carl -- one possible solution may be to start another "new" thing. You know. A place like old-school Usenet, but more visible to the public eye ... With a main selling point being that it's about intelligent moderation, not fearful, sloppy moderation. You're right that people DO need a place like that. I, too, miss old-school Usenet.

It's funny, too. No matter how heavy-handed new-school moderators are, they will NEVER come close to killing all the spam on the Internet. But they could definitely do a big chunk of damage to innovation.

I volunteer to support and pimp the revitalization of old-school, intelligent moderation. Who wants to start a fan club? Or maybe we should start handing out lessons and certifications ... Then, it may again be uncool to be a heavy-handed moderator. ;)
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Postby CrittersMinion » Fri Oct 12, 2012 3:29 am

[Reposted from old comment system, from crit22567 on Mon, 12 Oct 2009 16:44:59 0000]

Wow, right on. I would LOVE to read the response it got, if any.
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Postby CrittersMinion » Fri Oct 12, 2012 3:29 am

[Reposted from old comment system, from anonymous on Sun, 11 Oct 2009 00:52:08 0000]

The solution is to start your own version of Ars Technica.

Carl
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